Welcome to the Winter season of Circle of Change! I can’t think of a better way to start this year off than by sitting in this circle with our three guests today. We have with us, Aileen Crowne, Pam Blanshard and Heather Rose, three beautiful souls who are helping us to navigate and thrive as we walk this evolutionary and transformational path of Life together. These women demonstrate through their stories a new way of being that will inspire you and may even bring you to tears.
What’s in this conversation for you:
What it means to evolve as a human being and why that is being asked of us right now
The profound beauty and necessity of finding community and partnership
Powerful ways to help you find connection amongst painful family and partner patterns
Permission to embrace the evolution and become exactly who you are
Poem: Five, from The She Book by Tanya Markul
She’s in between worlds right now. A part of her is leaving. But it’s not like before. She’s holding space this time. Not sweating it, but breathing beyond her skin. She’s good. She’s even shape-shifting. The raven. The owl. She’s unafraid of the bird’s eye view, and unlike all those other times, she isn’t scared of the unknown. She’s present and neither timid nor bold. It feels beautiful, like the song of a blackbird, and frightening, like the rumble of an avalanche.
Who’s in circle with us:
Pam Blanshard - I’m a certified life and relationship coach dedicated to keeping you connected to your intentions both personal and professional. In my coaching practice, I provide the tools, strategies and support to help you create meaningful change, healthier connections and a sense of equality in all relationships.
With EdmondsRose she helps create a thriving family unit and successful future for both the business and each member of the family by coaching on effective communication skills that reduce conflict and misunderstandings.
Pam is a Trained Alternative Dispute Resolution mediator from York University, Toronto ON, and a Certified Life Coach from Coach Training Alliance, CA.
She combines the study of The Gottman Method, Mindfulness and Neurobiology from Hinks Dellcrest under the tutelage of Dan Siegel, and brings to her practice, knowledge, personal experience and a wisdom that is not taught in the classroom.
Connect with Pam through her website.
Aileen Crowe - As an accredited Executive Coach and a family advisor, Aileen offers experience in applying proven coaching strategies /tools, and psychological principles, to different types of relationships between people, in organizations, and family businesses.
She counsels families and businesses on relationships and personal and professional growth, including navigating the complexity of today’s work challenges. Aileen offers coaching strategies and tools to build stronger relationships around estate planning, wealth transfer and conflict resolution.
Aileen has a background running her own business as an Executive Coach, with more than 20 years as a coach and as a mental health practitioner with a Master’s in Social Work, a certified background in Co-Pilot Coaching Program, Associate Certified Coach through ICF, ADHD Specialty through JST Coaching, CMF - Institute of Career Certification International, and Certification in ASSESS Systems.
Connect with Aileen through the EdmondsRose website
Heather Rose - As an accredited Family Enterprise Advisor, Heather offers experience in applying proven psychological principals and theories to different types of relationships - between people or across generations. She counsels families and businesses on relationships, and personal and professional growth, offering processes for clients to build stronger relationships around estate planning, wealth transfer and conflict resolution.
Heather has a background in private practice, with more than 20 years as a family therapist and mental health practitioner with a certified background in Family/Marital Counselling, Research and Psychoanalysis, as well as Doctoral Studies in the Philosophy of Social Work. She is also the founder of RQ Inc. – a Toronto-based multi-disciplinary health care clinic, and she holds a Masters of Social Work and Clinical Social Work.
Connect with Heather through the EdmondsRose website
Pick up the talking piece:
What came up for you as you listened to this episode? I'd love to hear. Send me an email at podcast@humconsulting.ca or leave a voicemail (click the voicemail button on the right).
Gratitude:
Circle of Change is recorded on lək̓ʷəŋən territories.
Our opening and closing music was created by the talented E-Rol Beats. You can find his creations at www.erolbeats.com
My fabulous podcast coach, Mary Chan of Organized Sound Productions, brought this podcast to life www.organizedsound.ca
Transcript: (Some words may not be accurately recorded. Please let us know if something seems off.)
Change begins from within. As easy as it is to look outside of ourselves and want the world to change, the truth is, it never will if we remain the same. This podcast was created for change-makers like you who want more love and connection in your community. Today you are going to hear stories that will inspire you, and also challenge you to be the change. We are going to go deep, my friend, so take a deep breath and settle in. My name is Ame-Lia Tamburrini - Welcome to the Circle of Change.
Welcome to the winter season of circle of change my friend, and welcome to 2022. What an amazing year, this is going to be, we are in the birthing canal of a new way of being in this world. That means that the pain is not over. But we can see the light. Next week. I'm going to talk more about this year and the power of three twos and what it means for all of us and our leadership.
However, I will say that it is a year to find your people, to surround yourself with those that are going to truly support you in this transition. To remind you that you are amazing and guide you toward the light of new possibilities. I really hope that you consider us to be part of that community. This year, we are offering an amazing opportunity to gather together with us so that we can navigate this birthing process together.
We will be revealing more information on that over the coming weeks. If you're not already signed up to get our newsletter, please do that at HumConsulting.ca. And you can also stay tuned over on LinkedIn and Instagram with Ame-Lia Tamburrini as the tag. I can't think of a better way to start this year off than by sitting in this circle that we are in today.
We have with us three beautiful souls who are helping us to navigate and thrive as we walk this transformational path together. If you want to get a grip on what is happening and how to navigate and lean into. And really participate as a leader in your own life. And this conversation is for you. If you have sense that something is going on, but you don't have anyone to talk about it in your life, what you are witnessing are sensing, then you're going to find deep community here and knowing that you're not crazy, you just need to find your people and be surrounded by them.
I really encourage you to let the words spoken here, open you up to something new. There are so many profound nuggets in this conversation.
Today, we are joined by Aileen Crowne, Pam Blanchard and Heather Rose together. And individually, these women are using spiritual intelligence, education and support to help their clients heal and contribute to the world in new ways.
And we get to soak up all of this wisdom today. You are going to leave with a greater sense of what is happening in our world today, what it means to evolve as a human being and why that's being asked of us right now, the profound beauty in finding community and partnership in this journey. You're going to leave with powerful ways to help you find connection amongst your most painful family and partner patterns.
And you will leave with permission to embrace the evolution and become exactly who you are. These women have individual coaching and therapy practices and are also part of EdmondsRose, a group of family, business advisors, supporting multi-generational businesses. All areas of transition continuity and succession planning.
Let me introduce you to these powerful change makers. Pam Blanchard is a certified life and relationship coach dedicated to keeping you connected to your intentions. Both personally and professionally in her coaching practice, she provides the tools, the strategies, and the support to help you create meaningful change, healthier connections, and a sense of equality in all relationships.
With EdmondsRose. She helps create a thriving family unit and successful future for both the business and each member of the family by coaching on effective communication skills that reduce conflict and misunderstandings. Pam is a trained alternative dispute resolution mediator from York university in Toronto and a certified life coach from Coach Training Alliance.
She combines the study of the Gottman method, mindfulness and neurobiology from pink style crest under the tutelage of Dan Siegel and brings to her practice knowledge, personal experience, and a wisdom that is not taught in the classroom.
Aileen Crowne is an accredited executive coach and a family advisor. She offers experience in applying proven coaching strategies and psychological principles to different types of relationships between people in organizations and family businesses.
She counsels families and businesses on relationships and personal and professional growth, including navigating the complexity of today's work challenges, Aileen offers coaching strategies and tools to build stronger relationships around estate planning, wealth transfer, and conflict resolution.
She has a background running her own business as an Executive Coach, with more than 20 years as a coach and as a mental health practitioner with a Master’s in Social Work, a certified background in Co-Pilot Coaching Program, Associate Certified Coach through ICF, ADHD Specialty through JST Coaching, CMF - Institute of Career Certification International, and Certification in ASSESS Systems.
Heather Rose is an accredited family enterprise advisor. She offers experience and applying, proven psychological principles and theories to different types of relationships between people or across generations.
She counsels families and businesses on relationships and personal and professional growth. Offering processes for clients to build stronger relationships around estate planning, wealth transfer, and conflict resolution. Heather has a background in private practice with more than 20 years as a family therapist and mental health practitioner with a certified background in family and marital counseling, research and psychoanalysis, as well as doctorate studies in the philosophy of social work.
She is also the founder of RQ, Inc. a Toronto based a multidisciplinary healthcare clinic, and she holds a masters of social work and clinical social work. If you have ever wondered what it's like to sit in a circle with wise women healers, this is your chance to welcome to the circle of change.
Pam, Heather, Aileen, it is so wonderful to be sitting with you here in a circle. Thank you so much and welcome to the circle of change.
[00:07:32] Guests: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:07:35] Ame-Lia: I want to share with people, how this circle came to be, because I love how naturally things flow and evolve. If you just let them. And for me as a leader and entrepreneur, I'm always coming back to this lesson, stop doing and just be and pay attention.
So I posted a video on LinkedIn and Pam who's with us today wrote this comment that was so intimate. It felt like I was being seen in a really deep way. And it struck me and I felt compelled to reach out. And so I did, and we ended up having this beautiful deep conversation where it became, I think more clear, certainly to me, why we had connected and then Pam thought of Aileen and Heather, of course there are collaborators and we came together for a brief conversation. And now here we are today and all of this has just been a flow and ease. And based on the conversations that we've already had, the time we've had together, I am delighted to bring you and your energy, your expertise, your wisdom to the listener here, who is with us in circle today.
So, thanks again for being here.
[00:08:52] Guests: Thank you
[00:08:56] Ame-Lia: To begin. I'm going to read a poem. This is by in one of my favorite books is called the She book, and I thought of you as three, very powerful women. And I love this book. The poems are a bit punchy. Hold a lot of energy. Anyways. I thought this one would be interesting to start us off with today.
The author is Tanya Marcus. For the listener, feel free to take a deep breath, same with each of you. If you want to just take this time and settle in and get present with what we were about to hear and take in.
She's in between worlds right now, a part of her is leaving, but it's not like before she's holding space this time, not sweating it, but breathing beyond her skin.
She's good. She's even shape-shifting the Raven, the owl she's unafraid of the bird's-eye view. And unlike all those other times, she isn't scared of the unknown she's present and neither timid nor bold. It feels beautiful. Like the song of a Blackbird and frightening, like the rumble of an avalanche.
Does anything arise for any of you in hearing those words?
[00:10:16] Pam: Oh, I have to collect myself. I got a little emotional considering I was just talking with Heather the other day about my own avalanche of, feeling like I was, under an avalanche and. And I think when you're in narcissistic type relationships and have suffered trauma, it can very much feel like a avalanche.
And as I said to Heather, I can hear you on the other side going this way, this way. And I'm like, well, anyway, I dug my, dug myself out of the avalanche. I had industry just enough space debris. But knowing somebody who was on the other side was, was paramount to my success is just knowing that there was somebody on the other side, it's like he's fricking digging. So yeah. Kinda touched me that one.
[00:11:08] Ame-Lia: Thank you for sharing that.
So the three of you are, I think, connected on multiple levels. And the one thread that I know for sure, that connects you is the family systems perspective that each of you bring to your individual practices and I have not experienced family systems work myself. But my understanding is that is the systems perspective to understanding how we function, where the system itself is the family and the context within which that family exists or is embedded.
And it's fascinating to me, this work, and I really look forward to seeing how that is interwoven in our conversation today. But to begin, I'd love to give you an opportunity to just express who you are in, whatever way that comes up for you. And if you brought a talking piece, please feel free to introduce it during this round.
So who are you?
[00:12:10] Aileen: I brought a talking piece. My brother's gold necklace with a clatter ring representing my father. And it sits near the heart. Family is always in my heart. So it's not surprising that I'm doing family work because, um, I really feel fortunate that I have such a wonderful family. So who am I? I first think about who am I in a family?
You know, a mother, a daughter. Mentor, and then it expands to a person that wants to connect with other people to make them feel like there's someone there who cares about them, who listens to them who wants to help them.
And I think that's, yeah, that's my piece.
[00:13:09] Pam: I love that Aileen. That's so beautiful.
I wasn't going to, I have changed the way I'm going to share mine. It's like definitely a boat, family, and a family initiated my own inner, self-awareness my desire to change. It's like, girl, you're pretty messed up and your kids are barometers to your internal chaos. So why don't you get yourself together?
And a lead these two beautiful young women out of this crazy storm. So I would say, you know, I'm a. A pretty fabulous frigging mother who loves to, uh, mentor others and teach others and do energy work with others and support all different types of individuals in, uh, their own journeys and their own thinking.
And really most importantly, support their own thinking. And, I'm a great friend and a. To alien's point. I just, you know, to be able to connect with somebody else and say, I see you like, no, I know I see you as a really important part of who I am.
Oh, I brought a talking stick. Mine is a little, a little arrow that says, let's do this thing.
And my daughter, my youngest daughter, Eve gave this to me and my kids really, really support my coaching career and they support us. She saw this in the store and wanted me to have it on my desk, in my office here. So when we were just told to bring a stick, I was like, yup, that'll do the trick. Bring your people with you.
So that's my stick.
[00:14:53] Heather: I've spent most of my life trying to, from when I was four years old, from what I can remember beginning to be conscious that I was called to do, be an energy and to use the energy medicine for healing. I did a lot of things to deny that part of myself, I did a tremendous number of different lives and life kept calling me and pulling me through and saying, come on this way.
So when I was in my late twenties, that question really became relevant to me. And I realized I'm really not, a citizen on this planet. Like many other people. I began to realize it. And I've met many, Shamans medicine people and, healers guides along the way that have been there for me and been waiting for me to come and told me what they needed to tell me.
So I could take it with me and journey. And so I journeyed through life. It's been a disappointment to many people that I didn't do, certain things that would have. Very helpful, you know, for a local citizen in that I, I was always looking for a way to participate with life and being an Ecuador has helped me let go of a lot of the culture that we grew up in and where we're expected to be, who we are and identify with the culture and to let go of the cultural identity and move into.
Who am I? And one of the shamans I worked with along the way, we've actually returned to this lifetime. You were a healer that went from village to village and you're took the medicine with you. And you understood very clearly when you were with the person, you could read what it is that was required and you would give it to them.
I understood that I could align with that understanding and being an Ecuador is very, very much like that. So the project I'm doing here, it's taken a tremendous amount of work to on my part because of my personality to align myself with what life is guiding me to do and create through this project and find the I'm coming to understand who I am and feel a lot more comfortable in that question.
Which I can't really explain any further than knowing that I can now feel comfortable in the question.
[00:17:34] Aileen: That's beautiful. And as you can see how lucky and grateful I am to be with these extraordinary women who I find are helping to bring me along in this journey and teach me and walk with me an educator.
[00:17:56] Heather: When I met you, Aileen, you came to see Don Edmonds and I, and Mississauga to talk about the family enterprise course after the meeting, never talking about the question that you had asked us about the course and the fit and so on. And I said, well, whatever. At some point we'll work with Aileen because that she's the person that that's here for, what it is this required.
I don't know what it is yet. And he said like, I like give me, you know, gone, gone, like what would the structure be and how would we use it and what would we do with it? I said, I have no idea. I'm telling you what the future is going to hold. And I don't know when it's going to be, but I know she's the woman that's going to participate.
[00:18:43] Aileen: Amen! That's lovely to hear.
Well, I felt that.
Could be destiny to it, but I wasn't as confident as you were, and I did want it.
[00:18:58] Ame-Lia: This is so beautiful. I love how you are all demonstrating where I think that the conversation will eventually go, but really thinking about what is, what is the world asking of us in this moment?
And when I think of the three of you, I think about how you're all leading. That being leaders in that, in your own way, but really being courageous enough to listen to the cues and not know where it's headed and step forward anyway. And I think it's so, so beautiful. So sort of on that note and each of you touched on this a little bit in your opening, but I am curious about what, what it is that got you to where you are today.
Do you think like, were there key points or pain points or turn around moments? That you think propelled you to get here doing the work you're doing, being who you are in the world today.
[00:20:03] Pam: For me personally, I did touch on it. I touched that I was in crisis. My children were in crisis. I had just ended a marriage that turned very high conflict and it had a huge impact on me as a mother.
Which translated into, you know, the girls spiralling down, really not having any stability and then being pushed into a psychiatric type structure that I knew was only taking more of them away. And having this moment of this voice being loud and clear saying, they're not the ones that need help you are.
And I was already seeing a therapist at the time that I really, really, really, really needed an intervention. So I decided to border on a nervous breakdown and, came across my friend, Heather, here who, walked with me, through, well, walked with me know I was in that avalanche actually. So, it was hard to hear the, hear her at first, but as I approached the light, it became clear that if I can extricate myself from that type of trauma and then see my children evolve on a beautiful level.
Like it's just, it's obvious every day, I didn't have to wait years to see the results of my inner work. I, it had happened and it happened in days and he evolved beautifully over years. Was it, you know, rainbows and butterflies? Absolutely not. There was a lot of difficult moments, but I knew that as I overcame each one and knew that I was worth finding myself, which is a beautiful moment in itself. My world began to change and I had to get the word out there.
I had to get, you know, I'm a big fan of, of supporting women. I do have a clientele of men also. It's just all about creating safety and whatever that means for each individual. But that is the way through this work is creating that safety within yourself and around you.
So. And then teaching that to my children and now my people. So that's how I got here with a team.
[00:22:33] Aileen: So my, I mean, my childhood were traumas that weren't related to maliciousness or neglect or anything like that, but just circumstances that sort of started me on the trajectory. And my parents were very wise around making sure that they got all of us in the family to see someone to help and that
Woman is still in my life. Now she's the main scene and I see her off and on as needed. But funny story, I was going into nursing and my mother, I was away in Arland and in love with this Irishman. And then my mum misread my acceptance to U of T for nursing. And then when I came home, like just before I came home, she re-read the letter, but I had already applied to Western and I lost that placement because my mum didn't reply to it because she misread it.
So I ended up going into social work at Ryerson. So that started me on the path that I was in. And I think circumstances throughout my life and being involved in, you know, a very difficult marriage and valuing family and the children, I realized at some point, 10 years ago, that if I didn't get out, I would lose the children. They wouldn't be a part of my life in the way that I wanted them to be.
So I started at that point, planning it and having the courage to leave. And definitely, I mean, it's been the best thing for me. And that's where the journey really started.
In terms of going backwards to do all the work and then moving forward.
It's interesting because most of my clients are men, very courageous, willing to look at difficult situations, willing to change, really, to modify it. And I always remember my dad saying something to me.
He said, you weren't able to change your ex, but look at all the men that you've been able to help, help them to start their own journey. So I really feel fortunate that everything has happened for a reason why I'm here again, I'm forever grateful because I'm always learning with our group. Always learning.
[00:25:12] Heather: For me every decade that I lived either at the end of, coming to the end of that decade at the beginning of the next, I had a major life change, catastrophe or move, or the way I thought about things and it catapulted me into the next decade, the way I lived it, I began to understand that that's what would happen.
And, and one of the things that happened as these happenings occurred is that it would clear the playing field. There'd be nobody left around me that I could count on for support, because I did very dramatic things that people didn't like, or it hurt people, or people hurt me. Or it was just so strange to people what I was doing.
If I was in the normal course that they expected things of, I would do something that was quite unexpected with it. There was really nothing that like this spirit guide was so strong in me. If I tried to do it the way I wanted it to everything would just go, but in really bad ways. And if I waited and allowed myself to do.
In much more graceful ways than things went much easier for me. So I had to turn from being like a rhinoceros into being a tiger and leadership styles definitely changed.
[00:26:58] Ame-Lia: Oh my gosh. Now I'm, my head is so full of all this imagery of like the avalanche we use, like I heard catapult and now I've got this rhinoceros. But there's something very stormy and big and disruptive and destructive almost about these moments that bring us closer to our true selves, or I'm not sure if that's how you would describe it. Well, how would you describe it actually, in terms of what you're being drawn toward? What is that?
[00:27:33] Pam: God bless anyone who finds themselves with grace and ease. But it, that was just not the case for me at all. You can imagine digging yourself out of an avalanche.
It was hard, hard work, and yes, I rested a lot and uncomfortably, because I was a bit of a workaholic. So even the rest is like, you're never going to get out of here, get the frame off your butt and keep digging. But it was hard. It was challenging. And ego love to come in and say, you know, you're going to get a reward.
When you get out of here, you're going to get a reward. Oh, I deserve a reward. Absolutely. I'm going to get a reward. And when there was no reward and when no one came to have come inside and helped me dig out that it was really up to. For the longest time. That was very, very uncomfortable for me, even though Heather was on the outside, like a Shawshank redemption saying, you know, I'll meet you here.
[00:28:30] Heather: And you did, girlfriend, you met me.
[00:28:44] Pam: Yeah, it was to realize no one was coming was very frustrating in the beginning. It was very lonely work. It is very lonely work, but then when you realize that halle-friggin-lujah , it's up to me, I get to design how I'm going to get out of here. No one holds that power other than me.
It's like, okay, all of a sudden, I just grew a whole bunch of muscle and trusting and faith and found the way, that's my little metaphor to this conversation. Yeah. And I found myself because I had lost myself.
[00:29:20] Aileen: So true. I was, as a young child, even though there were traumas, there was just such a fighting spirit there and unique person. And then I started went through period of losing. And over the past couple of years, I think Pam said it beautifully like a lot of darkness, a lot of digging out.
I don't think I was in an avalanche, but I'm trying to think of what I was. But back to your poem in the beginning, always just imagining that bird, like the birds that you mentioned, I sort of knew one day when I was getting there because I had this dream that I was on the side of Yosemite and I was sitting on one of those little chairs that you found in elementary school.
And I jumped off and I'm afraid of heights. I'm terrified of heights. And I jumped off and all of a sudden the chair had these rockets and I just careened down to the ground, controlling it, driving it, getting to safety.
And that was a huge shift for me because that said, you've got this, you can do it. And I have to say that dream has sustained me for years, whenever little bit of fear creeps in or whatever.
But I also believe that our strength in this group is what we've gone through, where, how we've come out of it. And we can offer. Not share it, but talk about the tools, the strategies, what we were given from each other, what we give each other so that people can find their own community of supporters, of helpers, of people that care about them.
[00:31:21] Pam: You saying fear Aileen, it triggered, you know, to do the work inward and not, you know, the fear of pleasing somebody else first before you feel safe. When you've had trauma, as you know, that becomes the benchmark to your being able to sustain somewhat, a life with, you know, that's how you created uncertainty or how I'm speaking about myself right now, but fear during, you know, as you're trying to get out of this and you're like, oh my God, I'm doing this for myself.
One thing that's very uncomfortable because you're so. You know, I'd be so used to coaching Heather. It's like, don't worry. I'm fine. You're going to get your dinner tonight. I'll get the grass cut when I'm out. Don't worry. It's all good. You know, so to go and actually do this work and do it wholly for myself was terrifying.
And that fear of risking that you would lose things, but as you get stronger, When you grabbed that strength, you're actually in a position that the things that you feared you'd lose, you're like sitting there. Sorry, I've been living with you for how long? I think, you know, so we, I just think you don't want to get too far ahead of yourself on these journeys because you'll, you'll stop yourself from moving because you think that you won't be loved again, or you won't belong anywhere again.
So you stay in these old patterns. And yet that you're just too far ahead of yourself. When you do this work quickly. As Heather says, slow and steady wins the race.
[00:33:02] Heather: When you were read the poem today, I thought how intelligent and I mean that in true sense of intelligence, how intelligent it was of you to bring that to us, for us to use.
I work in terms of evolution that we are evolving into a new space. And we are trying to make it through a very volatile time and how it's erupting into each of our lives and what we're all trying to do to manage that eruption and what life is doing.
It's so beyond me, what is occurring right now. It's so beyond, a comprehension of, of most human beings of what we're taking part in right now, we're trying to find a meeting and to meet others that are doing, are there like you doing the same thing that are saying it's, we're what we're in the dark.
Are you there? There's an awful explosion going on and we're looking for each other and I could just weep and I say this to find one, to find one and all you survived. You're here. You're here. It is such a beautiful moment to meet and to say, Hey, you've survived. What's happened to all of us. What was done to us?
What we do each other what's being done in the name of so many. Things, whether it's religion or politics or marriage or whatever institution was created and what has been done to us in the name of that man and women, and to find people that are surviving. And I think of some of the Day of the Triffids I read when I was in high school.
And how they found honey and how exciting that was for them to find honey after the catastrophe. And I know that moment, that's what this conversation means to me and why I would show up for this kind of a conversation because it's so deeply meaningful and potent, and it will call to people that were out.
[00:35:33] Pam: This brings me back Heather, to our time in Oregon at the June Houston event in our little circle that we had. And when we handed the stick over after you shared that this something like this, that was similar. And, uh, and what my purpose was to bring in the humor and all of a sudden this vision of, I don't know if, I don't know if I got the right.
Well, I'm not even going to say what I was thinking now because you're laughing and it’s just sad.
[00:36:11] Heather: I always say to Pam, oh my God, I just love. You show up with that humour of yours, for sure.
[00:36:23] Pam: I'm not going to say it now, but I can't remember the
movie though, but it was an awful, awful movie. It was a beautiful movie, it won awards, the one, the Holocaust, a wonderful life.
And he's, you know, trying to be happy for his son and you know, everybody's going to those friggin, you know, concentration camps, and he's laughing, trying to keep his son, you know, from seeing all the horror.
And, I do that in my own home. I do it with my clients. Like I am not allowing you to go through this much pain without a whole lot of joy involved. And, because you're right. It's like, I love, love, love your metaphor about,trying to see. Who, uh, has survived and, and still finding our people.
And at the moment there are few and far between, but in the last six months or so, I do see them coming. I feel them coming.
[00:37:31] Ame-Lia: Yeah, I feel that too. And thank you. So, Heather, I think you touched something very deep when you, when you spoke of that, of finding the survivors and.
Yeah.
And so I'm deeply honored to create spaces like this because I do think you're right, that people are seeking it and people will listen to this and that they will feel. Relief and just a deeper knowing of themselves and an acceptance of themselves and what they too are feeling inside that. And when we don't have those pockets that reflect that back, it's very, very challenging.
I do want to dive into this, this big transition that we're in. Yeah. It looks like an avalanche. I do like this poem and how it came to me because that's sort of what it feels right now. And you hear a lot of the commentary of like, oh my gosh, one more thing, one more thing. How are we supposed to bear?
And I'm deeply curious about your perspectives on what is happening right now and how are you? Each supporting people to walk in this flow with the avalanche.
This is maybe like two questions in one, but what else are you noticing and how else are you supporting people or what is feeling supportive to help people in this big, painful shift that we're in.
[00:39:02] Heather: So much in your work, Aileen, it has such a capacity. Sewing. Someone had to climb a mountain that you've got the equipment and you show them how to do it. It's just so beautiful. The way you do that. Maybe you could speak to that question.
[00:39:19] Aileen: You have to start where they are, which is the most important thing. And we've had discussions in our group about, you have to respect how far they can go and if they can't go as far as you feel, they have the potential, but they just can't do it. Then what can we do for them to get them to a place where at least it's a start, at least they're starting the journey, their awareness is opening up.
I mean, I remember starting to work with an executive probably over 10 years ago, and then he just keeps coming back over the years and now he could be talking this talk with us because that's how much he's evolved.
And a lot of it was on his own, but there was just pointing him in different directions to have him experiment or look at it or see if it fits. And I think that's what we do. I really feel that people that I've worked with have that inner innate, core of goodness, how far they're willing to open that up, like a flower and you know, what, every level steps important and should be celebrated.
And I've watched people evolve over many, many years, but that's been my evolution too.
So we can't expect anything more from our clients than we ourselves were in our own journeys.
[00:41:00] Pam: To what Aileen's saying is really important about, you know, we can't expect anything more from our, our clients.
In the sense, you go online now and there's so many, you know, everything's a quick fix, you know, they've got the quick Tik TOK videos. You can figure out how to get your teeth white in 15 seconds for crying out loud now, and all kinds of things in the beauty world. And now they're promoting fast apps for coaching and emotional development.
And yet it's not that easy. Sure. You can go on there and maybe you'll have just like you would a reading an inspirational book. You may have an enlightening moment and hallelujah for that, or can be a lifetime investment and an important one. And I think, COVID is, you know, this is my thinking, you asked the question.
So it's like, I think mother earth is pretty fricking upset right now, and she's going to do what she needs to do to get into alignment. I believe that, in order for us to survive is to what Heather was speaking to earlier, about we got to find our people, we are going to, the only way we're going to get through this time is in community.
And coming together, like-minded people coming together and supporting each other and lifting each other up. And like Aileen said, walking side by side, not with an agenda of our own. Other than to support each other, not tear each other down, which we've been doing for umpteen billion years by all these institutions that everybody is so comfortable with, but they aren't freedom.
Freedom is you walking away from those structures and creating community.
[00:42:46] Heather: What has really blessed me is that I continue to want. And in that wondering, I don't imagine I know any person, no matter how much they have shared with me, told me, walked with me, talked with me. I am in awe of what people are able to accomplish.
And therefore I go with no expectation except from myself, which is quite vague. But no expectation of the other as we walk and we talk together and they do whatever they do with that wonderment, they can walk in that wonderment with me and then they go do whatever they decide to do with it. And they come back and they share with me what they've done.
And I'm in awe again, of what we're capable of as human beings. If we're given that kind of what Pam was talking about, that freedom to not be watched over by ideas that any kind of ideal and ideas that decide what we're supposed to be, because it limits who we can become. And I have spent most of my life extricating myself from those limitations that have been put on me from a very early age, because I had a learning disability and the way it was treated was so odd to me that they didn't really know me.
And I thought, well, you don't even know me. How can you even say that about me? So I never paid much attention to people after that. And I went about my own way, but the one of the problems is you end up living in your own world and then you have to emerge from that to join the human race and then find the human race is pretty well destroyed.
Then you have to look for people that understand what it was that we've all been through in their own ways and go, oh, that's really bad. What happened to us? Wow. If you're here. Okay. Okay. So let's walk on together.
[00:45:03] Ame-Lia: Beautiful. One question I'm deeply curious about, and I think you'll all have some words of wisdom here is that I love what you're speaking of in terms of how to support ourselves through this and how to show up with people.
I find I can do that when I'm holding space for people that I'm not intimately connected with. But when it comes to my own family, say an intimate partner who, which I have not been with for a really long time now in that dynamic. But that's when, sort of all the things that I know go out the window and it's just like that trauma just comes up and takes over.
And that's something I'm still very much working with and working through. And so I would love to hear your reflections on that. Am I alone in that? And if not, what is happening there in that particular dynamic? I would say, especially with family, that makes this showing up in more loving, compassionate, curious, ways, more challenging sometimes.
[00:46:07] Aileen: you're like everyone else. Who's always struggling. I think around some of those dynamics and dealing with past traumas, or sometimes it's hard to let go of some of the feelings that are associated with the traumas. I'm now just trying to practice. I say to myself every day, everyone's just trying to do their best.
When someone is clearly nefarious, then I just try to say, I forgive the soul in society.
Obviously you it's harder to forgive, but try to look beyond some of the behaviors sometimes because what's typically behind behaviors are fear, hurt feelings of rejection, abandonment, all kinds of things.
And so why do people behave the way they do? To create illusions of security, freedom and worth, but I still struggle with not reacting to certain people.
[00:47:10] Heather: I think that has been the most difficult situation for me, of all situations that you're describing because of the systems. All right, have been engaged in the systems that the cultural systems and family systems, the world systems, the political systems, educational systems, all of the many different systems, we're all engaged in where we were schooled fairly early about who we are, who we were supposed to be as women in relationship, you have to be either care about people or look great.
I mean, I'm boiling it down. You try one and then you try another and then you try another. And none of nothing really works sort of satisfactory for yourself as a woman or as a human being. So then the journey begins, the partner that you're with usually you're not with, as you perceive and then the partner that you become acquainted with and say yes to, you know, that they have the potential at that point, because, you know, that they have substantial potential, but you know, is it's going to be a minefield because of history, genetics, all these things I've mentioned already, the institutions it's going to be a mind sealed and you both have to, it's such a massive storm.
I remember having a dream and like Aileen, that dream, this always stayed with me that in the storm, I'm clinging to the ship and the ship sails by. And I'm plugging in the storm to that ship and to a mentor that I was working with to be able to get through, because the demand is so great that you can easily break a relationship because of it.
And the only thing you can actually hold on to is the fact that you chose that person. And that person said yes, and I will be there with you throughout. And that's the only person that is going to survive with you.
[00:49:22] Pam: I would say for a main, we're speaking to what Heather said. It's like, oh, I chose that person all right.
I didn't really expect there to be two major shitty storms though. I didn't expect these two people to like rip me open and take me back to my own childhood trauma and put it all out for public display and have me look at it from that perspective. I do believe that I was drawn to them, both to do the work I had to start making those two relationships less personal.
And more about my own personal development. That was the only way through it was definitely the only way through narcissism for me was to be able to say, what can I learn from loss? Who am I in the presence of this?
That took a whole heck of a lot of work and definitely a lot of support. It wasn't pretty, but it was important.
And I learned everything in relationships. I'm never, it's not that I go looking for it, but I'm never, I was never single long. There was always a relationship. And, I used to think of that as a negative, but over time now I've began to think that, you know, realize it's a positive because when I wasn't in a relationship with someone intimately, my friendships were somehow defining me.
And so for me, I had to take the person-, became all about my personal development with the hopes of having someday someone mirror back that developed.
[00:51:12] Ame-Lia: Hmm, thank you for swinging out there on that. I agree with you, Pam. And that there's an energy shift in that question, and I appreciate you all going with that flow and hope it is supportive for the listener.
Not just myself. I benefited a lot from you, so thank you. Thank you for that. In closing. I generally ask what does be the change mean to you? And I am also happy to leave it in your hands as to the final words that you want to share today in this circle as we close out. So it's, what is be the change means you or whatever words you'd like to leave with us today.
[00:51:54] Pam: To me being the change means be the change I have to be the change first. I have to do my own personal evolvement development and through that lead others. So I would consider myself in the shadows that Heather spoke to earlier, or I believe I'm carrying one of the lanterns to get us the fuck out of here.
[00:52:21] Aileen: I agree with everything that you said. You have to start with yourself first, be the change and thank you. This has been wonderful being part of this today.
[00:52:34] Heather: I think be the change for me is know myself, know that I am carrier of the disease that we are coming out of being a carrier of that disease means that I have to be very careful my engagement with other human beings because that I can hurt them very easily to be very gentle and kind when I come upon someone who is been through a catastrophe and it's very difficult because when you meet people that have been through catastrophes, they are very difficult to deal with.
So my work has always been to know myself as best I can at the time. And then when I come upon other parts of myself to accept the dark side of me, the shadow and bring it into the light.
And allow it to speak without hurting another human being and then convert it into material that's useful to the humanity.
[00:53:40] Pam: Girlfriend! That’s beautiful!
[00:53:45] Ame-Lia: Those are words to live by and beautiful words to close out our circle with. There is deep responsibility in this work and all of you have so graciously embraced that.
When I looked out at the world, I think that is the work and it lights my heart with joy to know that the three of you are boldly leading in this and shining the light so that other people can walk this path and find one another, as you so beautifully have found each other.
So, thank you so much for bringing your energy, your wisdom, your light to this circle today. My heart is full.
[00:54:34] Guests: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Ame-Lia: I'm now passing the talking piece to you. If you feel called to put your voice in this circle, please head to www.humconsulting.ca/podcast and share your story there. I cannot wait to hear what has come up for you as you have listened to what has been shared here today.
I wish you love and joy beyond your wildest imagination. Thank you so much for being here in the Circle of Change.
I also want to express my gratitude to the following peeps: Circle of Change is recorded on the Lekwungen territory and I am so grateful to live on this land. Our opening and closing music was created by the talented E.Rol Beats. You can find his creations at erolbeats.com. And special thanks to my coach, Mary Chan of Organized Sound Productions for bringing this podcast to life.
Until next time, Ciao.