In today’s circle we are talking all things leadership. You are going to hear the stories of three women who I deeply admire. Math'ieya Alatini, Jennifer England and Stephani McCallum are trailblazers in the world of leadership, deeply rooted in community, exploring the edges, and bravely stepping into conversations that are needed to reduce inequities, resolve systemic racism and bring reconciliation to life.
These three women, separately, and together are leading from their hearts to make the world a better place and I am honoured to bring their stories to you.
What’s in this episode for you:
Hear the unique and shared ways we become and identify as leaders
Discover the leadership skills and ways of being required to create a new, equitable future
Learn about their innovative and timely BraveSpark leadership program
Poem: Excerpt from Mark Nepo's book, Facing the Lion, Being the Lion:
The word courage comes from the Latin core, which literally means heart. The original use of the word courage means to stand by one's core. This is a striking concept that reinforces the belief, found in almost all traditions, that living from the center is what enables us to face whatever life has to offer. How do we find our way to our core to stand by our core, and to then sustain the practice of living from our core? To live out of our courage, thinking about courage in this way opens us to an array of small and constant efforts that no one ever sees, but which have changed the world.
The courage to face ourselves, each other, and the unknown, the courage to see, to feel, to accept, to heal, to be, efforts of this nature often go unnoticed and unrecognized, like the courage to break the life-draining patterns, and let the story of our lives unfold. To stand by one's core, and to persevere through the doorway of nothing into the realm of everything, like the courage to choose aliveness over woundedness, to remember what matters when we forget, and to build on the past instead of hiding it. Like the courage to choose compassion over judgment, and love over fear to withstand the tension of opposites, and to give up what no longer works in order to stay close to what is sacred. In this courage, is an applied art of spirit. It is not something we can manipulate, but only live into.
Who’s in circle with us:
Math'ieya Alatini is a capable and experienced leader known for trailblazing through her no-nonsense approach to getting results. On the heels of two very productive terms serving as chief of Kluane First Nation, Math’ieya did a quick pit stop working with the Yukon Government Cabinet Office, and is now bringing her experience and energy to her work for Canada's Indigenous governments and northern communities as the chief strategist for GSD Strategies. She is of Southern Tutchone, Tlingit, Russian and Welsh descent, and therefore has extensive family and community connections in the Yukon and globally. Her work ethic and vision have earned her a reputation as a leader who can get things done in a good way.
Connect with Math'ieya through, Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn
Jennifer England is the founder of Spark Coaching and Consulting. She has been a senior executive, and nonprofit leader for over two decades, widely recognized for her ability to influence systems change in the field of gender equality, justice, Indigenous rights and wellness. She works with leaders of social change throughout the globe to deepen their integrity, influence and impact.
Connect with Jennifer through www.sparkcoaching.ca, Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn
Stephani McCallum is the Chief Storm Rider at the Courageous Leadership Project, and a partner of BraveSpark Leadership. Steph has worked on five continents facilitating tough conversations on important issues. For over 25 years, Steph’s experience in authentic leadership, alternative dispute resolution, and community development has made a difference in hundreds of communities around the world. Steph is a sought after speaker, trainer and leader and as a trained leadership coach. Steph believes that brave, honest conversations are how we solve the challenges of our world together.
Connect with Stephani through www.bravelylead.com, Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn
Learn more:
Ways to Engage with BraveSpark:
BraveSpark Webinars
Sign up for their newsletter
Consider a customized leadership program for your community/organization, their next program launches 2022.
Get in touch with these amazing leaders through their website bravesparkleadership.com and follow them on Instagram - @bravesparkleadership and Facebook - facebook.com/BraveSparkLeadership.
Pick up the talking piece:
What came up for you as you listened to this episode? I'd love to hear. Send me an email at podcast@humconsulting.ca or leave a voicemail (click the voicemail button on the right).
Gratitude:
Circle of Change is recorded on lək̓ʷəŋən territories.
Our opening and closing music was created by the talented E-Rol Beats. You can find his creations at www.erolbeats.com
My fabulous podcast coach, Mary Chan of Organized Sound Productions, brought this podcast to life www.organizedsound.ca
Transcript: (Some words may not be accurately recorded. Please let us know if something seems off.)
Change begins from within. As easy as it is to look outside of ourselves and want the world to change, the truth is, it never will if we remain the same. This podcast was created for change-makers like you who want more love and connection in your community. Today you are going to hear stories that will inspire you, and also challenge you to be the change. We are going to go deep, my friend, so take a deep breath and settle in. My name is Ame-Lia Tamburrini - Welcome to the Circle of Change.
Ame-Lia Tamburrin (AT): Hello and welcome. In today's circle we are talking all things leadership, you are going to hear the stories of three women who I deeply admire, they are trailblazers in the world of leadership, they're deeply rooted in community, exploring the edges and bravely stepping into conversations that are needed right now to reduce inequities, resolve systemic racism and really bring reconciliation to life, amongst so many more complex challenges. These three women separately and together are leading from their hearts to make the world a better place and I am so honored to have them here and to have you hear their stories. In what they share you are going to learn how to recognize yourself as a leader, the qualities and the requirements of leaders today, and the components and inquiries that are really going to help you fully embrace who you are, as you step more fully out on the edges to bring change to your life and your communities. Collectively, these three women have an amazing program, Brave Spark, and I highly recommend you check it out, the information is in the show notes. But if you are interested in getting tailored support to bring out all of your unique gifts and turn those into your superpowers as a leader to really make a difference, this program, you're just going to love it, it's so holistic and beautiful. So let me introduce you to these three amazing women.
AT: 2:29 Math'ieya Alatini’s name is synonymous with energy, action and integrity. She's a capable and experienced leader known for trailblazing through her no nonsense approach to getting results. On the heels of two very productive terms serving as chief of Kluane First Nation, Math’ieya did a quick pit stop working with the Yukon Government Cabinet Office, and is now bringing her experience and energy to her work for Canada's indigenous governments and northern communities as the chief strategist for GSD Strategies. She is of Southern Tutchone, Tlingit, Russian and Welsh descent, and therefore has extensive family and community connections in the Yukon and globally. Her work ethic and vision have earned her a reputation as a leader who can get things done in a good way.
AT: 3:21 Jennifer England is the founder of Spark coaching and consulting. She has been a senior executive, and nonprofit leader for over two decades, widely recognized for her ability to influence systems change in the field of gender equality, justice, Indigenous rights and wellness. She works with leaders of social change throughout the globe to deepen their integrity, influence and impact.
AT: 3:52 And lastly but not least, Stephani McCallum. As Chief stormrider at the Courageous Leadership Project, and a partner of BraveSpark Leadership, Steph has worked on five continents facilitating tough conversations on important issues. Over 25 years, Steph’s experience in authentic leadership, alternative dispute resolution, and community development has made a difference in hundreds of communities around the world. Steph is a sought after speaker, trainer and leader and as a trained leadership coach, Steph believes that brave, honest conversations are how we solve the challenges of our world together.
AT: 4:28 Yes, I am sure you can understand why I wanted to bring these three women to you and with that, welcome to the Circle of Change, where today we are answering the question, What is leadership? Steph, Math’ieya, Jennifer - Oh, it's such a true honor for me to be here with you today in circle. I am so excited to hear your stories, and also to bring your wisdom to the listener. I know that I have personally greatly benefited from being in your circles, your trainings, your webinars, reading your newsletters, and the little that I know about you, I sense this conversation is going to be honest, it's going to be courageous, authentic and probably fun. Those are certainly the, the things that I think about when I think about the three of you. so thank you so much for being here today.
Guests: Great. Thanks for having us.
AT: I am going to open up the circle by reading an excerpt from Mark Nepo's book, Facing the Lion, Being the Lion. Mark Nepo, I discovered him when I was going through my own cancer journey, he too is a cancer survivor, and his words, somehow just creep directly into my soul and make me think about the world in a different way. And so I want to start with a few of his words for our show today. If you want, feel free to close your eyes, this is for the listener as well. Take a deep breath and just let these words soak in.
The word courage comes from the Latin core, which literally means heart. The original use of the word courage means to stand by one's core. This is a striking concept that reinforces the belief, found in almost all traditions, that living from the center is what enables us to face whatever life has to offer. How do we find our way to our core to stand by our core, and to then sustain the practice of living from our core? To live out of our courage, thinking about courage in this way opens us to an array of small and constant efforts that no one ever sees, but which have changed the world.
The courage to face ourselves, each other, and the unknown, the courage to see, to feel, to accept, to heal, to be, efforts of this nature often go unnoticed and unrecognized, like the courage to break the life draining patterns, and let the story of our lives unfold. To stand by one's core, and to persevere through the doorway of nothing into the realm of everything, like the courage to choose aliveness over woundedness, to remember what matters when we forget, and to build on the past instead of hiding it. Like the courage to choose compassion over judgment, and love over fear to withstand the tension of opposites, and to give up what no longer works in order to stay close to what is sacred. In this courage, is an applied art of spirit. It is not something we can manipulate, but only live into.
Guests: Thank you. Thank you. Beautiful.
AT: So to start, I want to ask the question that I ask, or will be asking all of my guests on podcast and circle. The question is who are you. We have learned a little bit about what you do in your work, and who it is you're serving, through your bios, but I know that you are also much more than that, as well. So please take this question wherever you feel you are called to take it. So the question is, who are you and whoever wants to pick up the talking piece and if you have a talking piece and want to describe it, please feel free to do that as well.
Math'ieya Alatini (MA) 8:34 My talking piece is a glass heart. It's from the Male Studios, a local glassblower who's creating creative space everywhere. She's just an amazing person, and supporting NGOs and very giving, all about supporting community and bringing people along, and I think I relate to her because of that, like she's about community and that's really where my heart is. It's always about how do I make a difference in my community, how do I lift people up. How do I create positive change and use my life as an impact to create positive change. And of course, I'm all the roles of a typical woman, mother being one of the most important ones, but also wife and sister and also Community Leader, having formerly had the role of chief, but still sticks. Everyone still comes to me and expect, you don't go away from that leadership role, it’s still there.
Jennifer England (JE): 9:43 I will go next here, and my object, talking piece is an oyster shell. I chose it because I think it represents my love of exploration, both in life and in my deep, in my own inner journey. I can often be found, I'm always the one like let's go find the shells on the beach, even though I now live inland. I love the ocean and I love shells, so this represents just this beautiful spirit of exploration. So who am I, I mean, like Math'ieya said, I'm a mom, I'm a partner, I'm an adventurer, the kinds of, you know, typical things that you find in a woman leader who's also a parent. And I think for me, how I love to answer this is that, you know, I feel like these threads of my life, two pieces really stand out questions that I've lived. And I feel like who I am is constantly exploring the edges of these questions and one of them is, how do I make a difference in equality and justice and sustainability, like how do I be a citizen on this planet so we can sustain ourselves in a way where everyone is whole, and loved and valued, and we bring out the best of each other to solve, you know, the biggest challenges of our times. So I feel like living this question constantly, how do I bring these inner gifts to solve and work through our biggest challenges. And then the second one for me is just this piece around how do I integrate my mind, body and spirit. And for me ever since I was a kid I feel like that's a really big avenue of my own inquiry. I’ve felt the imbalances at times were too much heavy, too intellectual, when I feel the imbalance so this constant dedication, I would say, to exploring and expressing my soul, my spirit, my body, the embodiment of who I am, in the mind, and finding some way of expressing that such that it's life giving, and humble. So that's what, that's what's coming up for me.
Stephani Roy McCallum (SM): 12:00 I love to hear these stories, even though I know it’s part of the interview. It's an interesting question that we don't often ask each other, you know, who are you. I have chosen some of the roles that sometimes women choose, and not every woman chooses those roles, so I'm a mother, I'm a wife. I am a daughter and a sister. But those are just kind of pieces of the puzzle, I think, I think, at my core, I have a friend who gave me the name storm rider. She's German, she lives in Munich, and there's a German word that probably has 22 letters in it, and it spelled out, a word for people who ride storms, right metaphorical and literal storms, and she said to me one time, that's what you do, is you ride the storm of high emotion, you kind of hold the space and channel it, to take people with something different. You know I think everybody has a gift, some people haven't identified it yet. Everyone's got a strength they can lean into. I’ve been thinking about this all weekend actually based on something that happened last week. So I think, Who am I, is that I'm a storm rider, and my gift is the ability to hold that space so people can talk about anything, or just bring it, like anything is on the table, and for both those things I think at my core like in that quote that you read from Mark Nepo, Ame-Lia, about courage at our center. At my Center I am courage, and I have learned over the years that my courage is greater and stronger when it's integrated with compassion, like a wildly open heart, and, you know, a brave foot forward. So I think that's the center of me, and that's my talking pieces, there actually we just moved to the cottage but I brought them with me. They are always on my desk, I collect rocks from all over the world but these happened to be the only two rocks I brought to the cottage. So one is, is Rose Quartz which for me is like that wildly open heart. And the other one is I don't even know what it is but it's orange and it's my favorite color and so I think it's like fire, you know, so that's, courage, and they're always on my desk, so when I'm meeting conversations oftentimes this happens in my, in the palms of my hands and not, is that kind of centering and grounding and thats the answer to who am I.
AT: 14:27 Beautiful. Thank you so much. Yeah, such a delight to get a peek into how it is you view yourself. I also heard so much about the complexity of who we are as beings, and each of you in the work that you do in the world, you are working with that complexity every single day and every moment. So thank you for sharing that. Each of you are working with leaders in various capacities to really help leaders develop the skills and ways of being that are so essential to lead in this time that we are living in, which I think you have described as chaotic and disruptive. What I'm curious about is, when did you first identify as a leader. I'm making the assumption that you have. I certainly see the three of you as leaders. But when did you first identify as a leader, what was that moment, what did it feel like?
MA: 15:29 I'm the oldest of nine siblings and there's a five year gap between me in the next so there's definitely, you just are naturally in that role, like you’re firstborn, you are going to be helping to take care of people and make sure things are done in an orderly way so that growing up in the bush so that you can survive. So I think there's always been for me that expectation or just the support, the grooming to take on the leadership role, and that just ends up translating into absolutely everything. My daughter got me a sign that says, I'm not bossy, I just know what you should be doing. See that's leadership, it was quite funny, but it's always been a part of who I am.
JE: 16:28 Thanks Math'ieya, it's so funny when I was thinking about this question, I had this memory. When I was nine, in like square dancing class with a kid in the gym and I remember, you know, it's like classic like boys supposed to meet the girl, I don't know maybe it was some other kind of dancing like ballroom dancing we're in grade four, anyway and I remember he said to me, he's like, you know what Jennifer, you're a leader. I kept wanting to lead him, because he was supposed to lead me and just wasn't working. So it's just a funny moment where I realized somebody else saw me as a leader, I didn't see myself as a leader at that point, I think it was just either that natural inclination to step in and make something flow better. In a way, I think then even in high school, maybe that was a time where I don't think I saw myself as a leader but again just really, I was stepping in, I invited the chief of a (local Nation) to come speak to my high school about logging, you know there was a massive issue of logging and Indigenous rights and I just was so upset about it. In grade, 11 or 10 and just no one was talking about it so there's this natural inclination like rising of consciousness like people need to know about this, we need to become involved and engaged and so it's sort of early on it was sort of for me, an inclination of making things flow better but also a rise of consciousness, you know, when I look back, and naturally, it was just, it wasn't, I am a leader, it's just, yeah, generative place of care and concern, and of all our rules, particularly if you have a kind of privilege. If you did have the ability to not just care about where you're going to sleep or which parents house you're going to be at or. yeah so I think for me that was the first recognition that I was stepping in, but again not in an overly self conscious way, more really coming from the heart.
SM: 18:30 I think it's an interesting question, you know, I grew up in a family who didn't talk a lot about, about a lot of things, except for I had a relationship with my grandfather, where we could talk about just about anything. I was probably pretty young, maybe like 12 or 13 when he started to call me the pinko of the family. So my grandfather is like a pretty far right, Texan Republican. And so pinko is the 1950s term for the word communist, I think that's, that's the source of, and I would for sure call that leader, but I think that's the source of connecting to, I stand for something. And I can take a stand and still be in relationship, and I can push the edges of what I believe and what this person believes, and still, you know, have you know a loving space between us. And so I think that's probably the source of leadership, not about role, not about a hierarchy, not about position, but about kind of tapping into the what, what do I stand for that's different than the people in my life stand for and what is the same. I think for me that's the source of when I first maybe identified the seeds of leadership, were part of my own leadership my own definition of it were planted.
MA: 19:51 I want to add something about just that little difference because I grew up in a small community, related to everybody, and with a lot of elders, and there is definitely the quote that it takes the community to raise a child, is a real thing. And I think there's this piece of expectation, but balance with support, so I was identified as a leader, early on, but because there was an expectation of pushing me into a leadership role, whether it was at a young age or at high school, when things could go pretty sideways for an Indigenous kid living on my own. I feel so privileged to have had that, that the pressure of it, but also the support of it.
AT: 20:40 Beautiful. I love that you’ve so gorgeously demonstrated what happens in circle is the stories of others, draw other stories out of you and you know, there's these constant awakening. Thanks for letting that flow.
I think I just recently realized I identified as being a leader, I think it was something I observed in my youth that I always ended up being the captain of whatever sports team I was a part of. And I think that had to do with ingrained ability to just hold space for people to be vulnerable and to encourage ourselves to be the best that we possibly can at any moment, and then it has evolved through many different roles, since then, but I think it was probably going through the cancer journey where I just really got clear on my life purpose and also just observing all the work I had done up until that point, and being like, oh there's a certain skill set I have here that I really desire I'm being called to give that now to the world and how do I step into that and I think it scares me every single day. And it's just keep taking one step in front of the other. So, let's talk more about leadership, because that's really. Yeah, we're I'd love to guide this conversation, it's already there.
So there's an extraordinary amount of attention right now I think in the world being paid to leadership, specifically around the pandemic, you know there's a lot of commentary around how medical health officers are stepping in and sort of leadership being measured in the results of pandemic numbers and things like that but also just how people are showing up. We are of course also living in a time where there are really big challenges on the table, you know, we are working with reconciliation, and how do we really bring that to life and what does that look and feel like in really real ways, and of course, systemic racism, more, more broadly, what are the things that need to shift and change and who do we need to be to actually lead us to another place that is not just going to repeat what we've been doing for so, so long.
What I would really love to ask you is, when you look at the world around you, and the chaos, the disruption that is existing, what are the skills or the ways of being that you think are most needed right now, or maybe most required to lead at this time, to get us to another place I'm attacking on that and a bit there, because I think that possibly is the goal. So what are the skills, the ways of being that you think are most needed right now in our leadership.
MA: 23:37 Some of the work that I'm doing is it’s bridging the voice of community so indigenous communities, mainly, but communities outside of Whitehorse, at this point, bringing that voice forward so that the territorial government can hear it, whatever that those needs are. There's so many things that, for me, I'm like that's logical just needs to be shifted. Definitely a piece about humility and listening with, from core, from heart. Listening to understand what the actual issues are versus just that, Okay, we can't have people coming back from treatment, and going to the self isolation because there's 100% failure rate. Well, how complex is that problem, and getting to root cause, and the theme of collaboration and compassion, and vision is so required in order to tackle some of these, this pandemic has just exacerbated some social issues and systemic social issues that have been long standing and have been, I don't want to say ignored but I think the enormity of them really causes people to kind of pull back and go, It's too much like how do we solve this, but the pandemic is actually giving us opportunities to have these conversations together to really shift energy into a way of bringing community together and putting everybody's energy into how do we address this issue. And if we can, if we can solve some of those major ones, I think that's, that's a big win to come out of the pandemic.
JE: 25:33 Thanks Math'ieya, I love what you highlight there is the bridge building which in our BraveSpark program was one of the six sort of key leadership capacities that we're really emphasizing, interconnected to that is this concept of interconnectedness or interdependence, and I feel like for leaders, there's still such a, in some ways, black and white way of thinking about issues, and about each other. There's us and them. There's sort of cause and effect. There's up and down, there's all these distinctions that are very binary. And I think as leaders, the world is so interdependent, the pandemic really bringing us all to the knees in that way, and our resistance, you know, we also have our own resistance that we have to sort of give up our lifestyle, or ways of being together that if all of a sudden crumbled at the base, we've got one another and how to live and work together in ways that really lift one another up, consider the ways in which inequalities continue to be reinforced. And how do we address that in ways that emphasize our interdependence and our interconnectedness, and that requires, I think a capacity to be able to be able to with difference, to be able to put our egos in the backseat, even at the institutional level or an organizational level where we get so committed to what we think is right, this is the way things should be done. If we're going to be able to evolve together. There's a letting go of the past, there's a letting go of who we thought we were so that we can actually come into being in a way that crystallizes some of these values and new ways of living together, of which one interdependence is, is a key one, and I think our, you know capital society, everything is built on to the dominant paradigm, a dominance paradigm. You know who has power who doesn't. And I think as a leader you need to be, that's, that's complex terrain, to be able to be humble, to have integrity to let go of your own ways, your attachments to being right in order to reinforce the fact that we are interdependent on this planet at the community level, or governance levels, and how do we bring ourselves to conversations to decision making tables where we can let go again and again and again for our whole lives it never ends as leaders, we're always having to let go of attachments to being right, to wanting things to be a certain way so that we can reimagine a new future together. That's not based on the past and isn't based on a dominance paradigm. So I guess I'm emphasizing the interdependence, interconnection that we talk about in BraveSpark, and also this concept of evolution and an evolutionary way of being, because being a leader means constantly evolving. Yes, we'll just stop there if Steph wants to riff off that.
SM: 28:40 Thanks very much Jen and thanks Math'ieya. I think I will just build on, I'll just do a yes, and to what you guys have said, I want to be the ability for leaders to stand in the fire. And so sometimes it's easy to think all let's define the problem let's, you know, have a conversation let's gather the right people together, that's a start. I think staying is much harder than starting, especially when we're looking at complex problems and like a wild divide between people. And so staying is a leadership requirement, and a real good skill, but I think that's about building our comfort with discomfort and not just our awareness of it like, oh I'm uncomfortable, it's more than that it's actually, can I change my perception of this to that discomfort and see it as opportunity is now we're getting to the real thing now the heart is coming out, now we're seeing the source of this challenge. Instead of seeing it as a thing we need to always smooth, because there's beauty in, in harmony, and not a lot of innovation comes from that place, and we need an awful lot of innovation, at the moment, especially in the challenges that we're facing, but maybe just the one other thing I point to, it's crucially important, I think that we shine a light on the challenges and on the divide. So, you know, systemic racism and equity complex challenges like let's shine a light on it, and I think the Work of Leaders, is not in calling it out. I think that's kind of calling it out, we do what's wrong, this doesn't work. Those are the folks who created the bad system that actually doesn't result in any change and it actually takes to the divide, just a little farther apart. Leaders do their best work when they call it in. How do we not call it out but actually welcome it in, welcome that thing we've shone the light on, because when we move forward all together, then we have an opportunity to solve the challenges we face. If we leave folks behind you know like, the sides of the road, or half the population who's on the other side that we just pulled out, then we're not going to solve anything. We're just switching sides, that's all we're doing, who didn't hold the power before is going to hold the power now, when we shift the status quo. And we just left everybody else behind, and those are really hard competencies to get people to embody. It's easy to talk about at a theoretical level, it's much more difficult to actually stand in the discomfort and then shift your perception and work from it and see it as opportunity it's much more difficult to welcome people in who you think have a abhorrent or hateful views, or who you just want to disagree with, and ask them to be part of making the change. So I think there are no band aids to the leadership the world needs now. It requires this dance of not just doing stuff but also showing up, being you know the doing and being dance, showing up with compassion and humility, you know, like my fellow colleagues have said, because courage is often there when you take a breath and you can step into it, you need to also pull the compassion and humility to hold the space for everyone.
AT: 32:87 I love that component, I've been thinking a lot about this lately, it was after an interview I listened to with Oprah actually and she was interviewing Joe Biden’s speech writer. She was really commending Joe Biden for I think he stood up in when he was elected and just said, you know there's zero tolerance for any bullying, any abuse, any whatever and like, essentially, you will be fired like the minute I hear of any of that, and Oprah was really commending this and I was like, oh my gosh I think I'm having a moment where I don't agree with Oprah, which is a really big deal for me because I just thought, yeah, that is our go to right, it's just fire the person get rid of them, put them in a box lock them up in jail, whatever it happens to be, but put them away from us, and I just think, for me, that makes me angsty because I, I need there to be another way, I need us to be able to collectively bring people in, when those events happen and really start asking the questions of, you know, well, what led to this, why, why is this person showing up in this way and how can we show compassion and really do the healing work required to get people to a different place versus just shunning them, essentially. So that's what is coming to me. Everything you’ve spoken of makes me think that this is a really big task that the three of you are taking on with this BraveSpark program, you know, we talked about bridging the divide and being divided is sort of the norm these days, we see that a lot, especially on social media platforms, I think talking about letting go, and we're also used to just holding on tight right especially to things that we really appreciate and love interconnection, when a lot of us have been taught that independence is a quality that we should strive for. And then staying in the fire when hose protective mechanisms come up so quickly, and that's really a difficult place for us to go to. So I do want to talk more about this program that you have co created together, brave spark. You say that this program is for disruptors, visionaries, social change leaders and innovators who really want to shake up the status quo and create new possibilities in their teams and their systems, and there's quite an explicit notion in that that we are what we are currently doing for the most part in leadership is not working, or maybe not meeting the needs of the challenges that we are present with today. So as a way to learn more about this program, I would love to hear from each of you like what part of the program are you most excited about, and why did you think that that was an important component to include in a leadership program today? And I know there are six components, so if we don't get cover all the six components. Let's hear more about those after you share. The question is what part of the program are you most excited about and why is that so important to include right now?
MA: 35:15 I'm excited that I get to do this work with these two fabulous women, super talented, and you get a real taste of the experience, that mind blowing capacity of my colleagues, and because I'm an Indigenous woman or identify as an Indigenous woman, who grew up that way, I'm also very much in both worlds, right, I'm in Indigenous community and building up Indigenous community, not just my own but providing that support to all, on the other side I see its systems that are in place that its status quo, this is the way we do it. This is how governance is done, this is and there's an assumption that that's the best, the right and only way, and it's not working. Actually, I love democracy, but maybe it's not the best form of government. When we in the Yukon have modern treaties that are still not implemented it's been like 20 years. So, obviously something's got to give, something has to shift, and I need more people to come forward and use their voice and find their spark or sparkle and share that with the world and help change the dynamic of us and then that the difference, this is our system that's your system, well, no, we're all in Yukon we're all in Canada, we're all Canadian, but how do we do things better together. That to me is the most exciting outcome. That's kind of the long term vision. I wanted to touch on that, it came up when we were just talking about social media, and there's this exercise we do and one of the workshops that talks about the somatic and I think this piece of the divide, where we're all in our little bubbles now because of this pandemic. We get see people on social media, but I don't think because you're not seeing a person's face, you end up focusing on difference on social media, versus in person, if there's a comfort level of finding sameness that just arose for me, as we were talking and like, it is very, because the somatic exercise, talks about how you feel in your body when you're connecting with another person, and it can be over zoom, but there's a connection there and the comfort of your body. When you find this sameness or that similarity is there, but for some reason social media seems to pull people into this, looking at the differences or pushing out the differences, it's just weird social dynamic I think that's coming up with this with this pandemic.
SM 38:11 Number one, I'm most excited to change the world one conversation, one leader at a time. The idea that we could bring our collective 60 years of experience, wildly different experience to right we have lots of similarities but our, our gifts and our strengths are different, and we put it with a focus on having a positive impact on just even one leader and supporting them to make positive impact and change the mass of the space that we're in that kind of what lights you up. That's what success is, one person at a time. And personally, I love the playful aspect of this program, like I love that we, you know we have a program, and we are also making it up as we go along, right, we’re changing it we're playing with it, we're iterating, we're noticing what's happening in the space, we're noticing what's happening in people and then we're shifting all, this is what's being done now like is, it is as much a growth of those who are in it, as the three of us are always discussing what else is needed, what else does this call for from us, which is a beautiful, beautiful stretch to always be playing and to be standing in. I think the other thing I'm really excited about in this program is making real, this this two part idea, Math'ieya calls it Brave Sparkle, you know, that's when you read the URL like, brave sparkle, but is making really idea that Courage isn't the absence of cowardice, courage is the antidote to conformity, so we're calling it like what do you stand for, what are you creating, what are you questioning about the status quo that you want to grow, and then the sparkle piece right is the heart, that wildly open hearts, you need to bring I think the idea, the concept of love, and leadership has gotten a pretty, you know, it's like a taboo topic, we don't talk about love and leaders together but that is at its core is what great leaders do, they lead from that place of love, with courage, and so that's the thing about the program that really lights me up, on fire is helping people find that such a good question. This makes me so excited to talk about it. Thank you.
JE: 40:34 Yes, we love working together. And I would just echo both Steph and Math'ieya to say I think for me the opportunity to collaborate with two other friends and colleagues who are deeply committed to their own growth and to the evolution of our communities, so they're just, and are governed in a way that is deeply respectful of all cultural traditions and histories, and invites a new possibility to be able to work with two other women in that way is invigorating to me, it gives me hope it gives me encouragement. It helps me sustain my own deep commitment to social change, and knowing that I'm not alone, and not only these two but also all those that we work with, I would say, I get a lot of energy from the deep commitment and passion of each leader who joins our, our BraveSpark community and their, their courage to stand apart and stand for whatever change they're seeking. And often they're coming from really firsthand, huge barriers and huge challenges, and just their commitment, their humour, their dedication is life giving. The other piece that excites me is the developmental aspect, we take a developmental approach to transformational change. So, that being said, really embracing each leader's strengths, really appreciating their perspectives, and recognizing that as adults we can continue to grow and change. We continue to include our strengths and transcend and grow to hold more perspectives, to be able to lean into new capacity development, that's unique to us, based on where we're being called to lead. And so that dynamic sort of evolutionary development is very exciting to me to bring that into a leadership program because lots of leadership programs don't include that. And I feel like that gives a lot of energy and momentum to each person's growth. Also just up to half a reconciliation, we know this in the context of Canada for those listeners, you know, we're committed to reconciliation. I'm a non Indigenous woman and leader and feel that it's so important that our collaborations include and make room for indigenous voices in our communities and in our countries in our leadership. And so, for me, the only way forward as a country, if we're going to get through the sort of Neo colonial times that we're in, is deep collaboration that's deeply respectful, that excites me to be a part of that.
AT: 43:30 Amazing. I love this program. I'm so glad that you three came together with your hearts and your experiences and created it. So thank you so much. I want to just open it up as we close, I want to do one quick round at the very end, but is there anything else you want people to know about BraveSpark program right now I know you've had to postpone the six month program until 2022, just to respect what's happening with COVID. We're going to post the website in the show notes. What else would you like people to know about the program, if it's the six components, and also how can people begin to interact with you, between now and that program launch in 2022.
MA: 44:18 A customized program, we can do in house training, and I think we'll be available for that, starting in September. The other ways that people can just get a taste for the conversations and the support is through our monthly webinars.
JE: 44:35 There'll be a bit of a hiatus for July and August and then we'll be back in September with another webinar. And just to reiterate what would be said about, you know, the program is because we've postponed the six month deep dive program, we are delivering the program in house, in fact we're in the midst of doing that right now. And so that means that organizations can tailor it to their context for their needs, so you know what's really happening for them on the ground, and still get the leadership growth that they're looking for, so we're adapting it, and bringing it in house.
SM 45:09 Yeah, so we also have a newsletter that gets sent out so people can stay connected with news that way from BraveSpark in terms of upcoming offerings, and you can also follow us on Instagram and Facebook as well. And you can follow all three of us individually as well. So those are some ways to stay connected and get a taste of our work,
AT: 49:25 Beautiful and I highly recommend following. I know that everything I absorb from you is transformative in some way, and personally, I love that, love when I'm able to see things in a different light. I also feel very supported in the courageous work of being a leader. So, thank you, again, in closing, I just want to go around quickly and you can express one word to describe just what is alive for you right now, after having this dialogue. So one word that describes what is alive for you right now.
Guest: Grateful.
Guest: Purpose.
Guest: Love.
AT: I will say courage, I can see you, because we're on a zoom call, and, yeah, I just see courage when I look into all of your eyes, and I'm just so grateful for your time today, for sharing your stories and really just pouring your wisdom and your experiences out into the ears of the listener and I'm grateful for the work that you're doing, because I, I see the end product of just having this world that is more loving, that is more compassionate, and more kind. I feel more at peace knowing that the three of you are out there courageously living from your heart, and doing this work so my deepest, deepest gratitude to you. Thank you.
Guests: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
I'm now passing the talking piece to you. If you feel called to put your voice in this circle, please head to www.humconsulting.ca/podcast and share your story there. I cannot wait to hear what has come up for you as you have listened to what has been shared here today.
I wish you love and joy beyond your wildest imagination. Thank you so much for being here in the Circle of Change.
I also want to express my gratitude to the following peeps: Circle of Change is recorded on the Lekwungen territory and I am so grateful to live on this land. Our opening and closing music was created by the talented E.Rol Beats. You can find his creations at erolbeats.com. And special thanks to my coach, Mary Chan of Organized Sound Productions for bringing this podcast to life.
Until next time, Ciao.