Episode 11: Dying with Peace

In today’s circle, we are sitting with Maureen Kures and talking about one of the most courageous and important topics, death. That may seem strange for a podcast about being the change - but is it? I personally think this conversation is essential for living our lives and giving ourselves fully. Maureen will share powerful stories about her experience working as a nurse and the wisdom she gained about the beauty of the end of life and why it’s important to talk about it now.

What’s in this episode for you:

• 13:30 Why death is so scary to talk about and what generally opens us up 

• 20:00 A heart-breaking story that illustrates what can happen when we wait too long before we have the conversation

• 24:30 The possibility that arises when we proactively plan for our death 

• 26:00 Some great ideas on the types of things we can put into our plans

• 34:30 The one thing we should all do ASAP 

Poem: “Death” by Joe Brainard.

Death is a funny thing. Most people are afraid of it and yet they don’t even know what it is. Perhaps we can clear this up. What is death? Death is it. That’s it. Finished. Finnito. Over and out. No more. Death is many different things to many different people. I think it is safe to say however that most people don't like it. Why? Because they’re afraid of it. Why are they afraid of it? Because they don't understand it. I think that the best way to understand death is to think about it a lot, try to come to terms with it, try to really understand it. Give it a chance. 

Sometimes it helps if we can try to visualize things. Try to visualize for example someone sneaking up behind your back and hitting you over the head with a giant hammer. Some people prefer to think of death as a more spiritual thing, when the soul somehow separates itself from the mess and goes on living forever somewhere else. Heaven and hell being the most traditional choices. Death has a very black reputation. But actually, to die is a perfectly normal thing to do. It's so wholesome. Being a very important part of nature's big picture. Trees die, don’t they? And flowers. I think it's always nice to know that you're not alone even in death. 

Let's think about ants for a minute. Millions of ants die every day and do we care? No. And I'm sure that ants feel the same way about us. But suppose— just suppose that we didn't have to die. That wouldn’t be so great either. If a 90-year-old man can hardly stand up. Can you imagine what it would be like to be a 500-year-old man? Another comforting thought about death is that 80 years or so after you die, nobody who knew you will still be alive to miss you. And after you're dead, you won't even know it. 

Who’s in circle with us:

Maureen Kures, RN is the CEO of www.RadiantMourning.com. She is on a mission to guide families to decide, document, and discuss their final chapter plans to bring peace for those who live on. Now she facilitates family conversations and leads virtual group workshops to replace drama, trauma, and chaos with calm, ease, and peace.

Connect with Maureen through, www.radiantmourning.com, Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

Pick up the talking piece: 

What came up for you as you listened to this episode? I'd love to hear your experiences with any of the reflections and exercises. Send me an email at podcast@humconsulting.ca or leave a voicemail (click the voicemail button on the right).

Gratitude: 

Circle of Change is recorded on lək̓ʷəŋən territories.

Our opening and closing music was created by the talented E-Rol Beats. You can find his creations at www.erolbeats.com

My fabulous podcast coach, Mary Chan of Organized Sound Productions, brought this podcast to life www.organizedsound.ca

Transcript: (Some words may not be accurately recorded. Please let us know if something seems off.)

Change begins from within. As easy as it is to look outside of ourselves and want the world to change, the truth is, it never will if we remain the same. This podcast was created for change-makers like you who want more love and connection in your community. Today you are going to hear stories that will inspire you, and also challenge you to be the change. We are going to go deep, my friend, so take a deep breath and settle in. My name is Ame-Lia Tamburrini - Welcome to the Circle of Change.

Ame-Lia Tamburrini (AT): Hi, friend! Welcome to Season 2 of Circle of Change. Yes! I am so excited to be back. I love having these conversations that are really helping us all to be the change that the world is asking for. Your support during Season 1 warmed my heart. So, thank you so much for sharing with us. We love reading your emails and listening to your voicemails about what has come up for you as you listened in. So, please keep doing that. You are an important part of this circle, so don't forget that. 

To kick off Season 2, we are talking about one of the most courageous and important topics, death. Yeah, that might seem strange for a podcast about being the change, but is it? I personally think this conversation is essential for living our lives fully and giving ourselves fully. It also prevents a lot of trauma and chaos when we do die. I mean, ultimately, I think this is about understanding the impact that we do have with our actions or our lack of actions. It feels like a perfect microcosm of what it means to actually take responsibility and to be committed to showing up in love. 

I also think this conversation is especially important right now because many people— and you might be one— experienced a death for the very first time in their lives during the pandemic. And I really want you to be supported in that journey. We talk a lot about the joy of this experience in this conversation, and I know that there is a lot of pain as well. And I want to acknowledge that before we dive in. 

In this conversation with Maureen, you're going to hear about why death is so scary to talk about and what generally opens us up. She also shares a heartbreaking story that illustrates what can happen when we wait too long before we have this conversation. And then she shares the possibility that arises when we do proactively plan for our death and gives us some great ideas on the types of things that we can put into our own hands. And she leaves us with the one thing that we should all do as soon as possible. 

So, let me introduce you to Maureen. Maureen Kures is a registered nurse, and she is the CEO of Radiant Mourning. She is on a mission to guide families to decide, document, and discuss their final chapter plans to bring peace for those who live on. Now, she facilitates family conversations and leads virtual group workshops to replace the drama, the trauma, and chaos with calm, ease, and peace. And you’re gonna pick up on that vibe immediately. If you love storytelling, you're gonna love this conversation. 

Maureen has so many stories from her years as a nurse and through the work that she does now. And she shares them with you with a full heart that so clearly wants you to experience the beauty in this part of life that so frequently gets ignored. So, settle in and welcome to Season 2. Maureen, welcome to the Circle of Change. It is so lovely to have you here. 

Maureen Kures (MK): Thank you so much for having me here. I am very honored to be with you. 

AT: I have had the pleasure of being in your presence a few times, online presence. And what I know about you and what I can see right now is that you shine light. You have this radiant and loving energy that really just emanates from you. And I imagine in the work that you do and in all the places you have worked, that has touched and had a great impact on people. And I love that myself and the listener get to absorb all of that today as we sit here in circle. So, thanks again for being here. 

MK: Well, thank you for that nice compliment because that is always my goal, is to be a light for others.

[0:05:04]

AT: Yeah. I feel that. I like to begin with this question of who are you and it's just a way for people to get to know you a little bit more. We've read your bio and we know a little bit about the work that you do. We're gonna find out much more about that though, but this is just a way to get to know other bits about you. And if you have a talking piece, feel free to introduce it in this first round. But, yeah, to start us off, who are you, Maureen?

MK: Gosh, I’m a wife and a mother. And I have three amazing young adult sons and an incredible husband. I feel very blessed. And I am a dog lover, an animal lover. And I'm an avid gardener. And I love wine and I love to travel. And many other things too, but that in a nutshell is who I am.

AT: I love it. I love the diversity and yeah. What kind of pets do you have? Do you have pets? 

MK: We’re down to 1 dog, and 1 cat, and a turtle named Buddy, which was my son’s that is still at home with us. I found out they live for 70 years. 

AT: Wow!

MK: So, anyone thinking of getting their child a red-eared slider aquatic turtle, think again because you can be one that ends up with this turtle for the rest of your life. 

AT: Oh, my goodness.

MK: But I did therapy work with one of my dogs, my dog that died last summer. And I look at his picture every day and he's my smiley dog, but he was a yellow Lab that always had a smile on his face. And we went and did a reading program with kids and that near and dear to my heart. So, I hope to do that again someday. 

AT: Amazing. So therapeutic. Animals are.

MK: Yes, they are.

AT: So, your company is called Radiant Mourning and that’s M-O-U-R-N-I-N-G for the listener, which I love that name. Again, it speaks to your radiance and the joy that you spread and bringing back to you this process of death and dying, which I think is such a beautiful and essential thing that is required, needed in our world today. Can you tell us a little bit more about the work that you're doing and what drew you to it? 

MK My first job out of nursing school was working on an oncology floor. And I thought “Oh, my gosh, I don’t wanna do that.” Working with dying people, how scary is that? Because my family didn't talk about death. When my grandfather died, I remember my mom— I was young— being sad and crying, but we didn’t really talk about death. The same thing I was in high school, I had a cousin that was killed in an accident and tears— We didn't talk a lot about it. 

So, I was unfamiliar with the dying process and really didn't want any part of it, but it was the first job I could get. So, I took it and thought I'd get my year’s experience and get out as fast as I could. But what happened was I found that I fell in love with that journey. I fell in love with the patients and their families. And you know, I found that dying wasn't as scary as I thought, and that it could be very peaceful, and that it can be joyful, and that there can be laughter and humor around the end of life. And I was very fortunate to work with an incredible group of nurses that brought joy, and radiance, and light to the unit that we worked in. So, I took that as a blessing. 

But I didn't really expect to be doing this work. It was a couple years ago. I had a random conversation with a person over Facebook, Facebook post. And we hoped on a Zoom call. And next thing you know, I'm going down this journey because why not. It's so important. It's something I've always advocated for. So, I just made it my mission to get people to talk about this.

AT: I love it. I love how you bring that forward that, yeah, we kind of never know where our life journey is going to take us and these lovely experiences that just show up and then all of a sudden we're doing this amazing work in the world, and it was not planned well it. 

MK: No. It wasn’t planned at all. I kept resisting to be quite honest and then some signs from the universe came. One was a big one and I thought “Okay, I think I'm being told.” It actually happened at church one day and I thought “Okay, God, did you just tell me that I have to do this work?” And so, I thought “Okay, I've got a listen to all the signs that have been given to me.” So, that's when I jumped in. 

AT: Yeah. The universe doesn't really let up. Does it? 

MK: It doesn’t. It doesn’t. You know, one of the things that really was important to me was to take the fear out of talking about death because like I was so fearful when I was young and I realize that it can be joyful like I said. 

[0:10:03]

So, I really wanted a name that resonated with that. And I thought we're all going to mourn. Everyone over things in our lives. There's no getting around it, but it can be radiance. I wanted to shine a positive light on it. So, that’s how I came up with my name with the help of a friend. 

AT: It's brilliant. It just gives such a great image too. I love that you’re an oncology nurse. I just have to say on a personal note that I've had my own cancer journey. And I think my audience knows that. And the oncology nurses were angels on that journey. And I think it does take a really special kind of person to show up in that space and hold the space for all that is going on for people in that journey whether they're the supporter or the actual person with the disease going through the treatment. So, I have the utmost respect for you and that work. 

And I know you're also a hospice nurse as well. And I used to volunteer in the hospice unit here in Victoria as well and know that work well. And again, a special kind of person, a nurse who works on that floor with people and family who is going through that experience. So, thank you for doing that work in the world. 

MK: It was my gift. I mean it was a gift to me to do this work. I had a good friend from high school that was diagnosed with cancer and went through a long journey, but I remember calling him when I first had my job and saying, “Gosh, Tim, I'm supposed to be giving to them, yet I come home filled up with— like these patients that their family supported me.” And he’s like “That’s how we are. We’re good people.” So, it was just so hard sometimes, sad obviously. I grieved every patient that died and I still do, you know. And the day I stop actually crying when a death occurs that touches my heart, it will be a sad day for me. Grief is something that I embrace. 

AT: Yeah. Absolutely. I have grown up around death and dying. I think my grandfather passed away when I was really young. And I went to that funeral and then, yeah, it's been continuous with family members and friends passing on along the way. And I meet people that are my age that have never been to a funeral and I’m almost like amazed at this and think how interesting that that’s another life experience. And so, for me, death has always been a part of life. I think with my own cancer journey, I’m really getting to see, be faced with the potential of mortality up close. It’s even deepened my curiosity about death and our ability to speak about it. 

You have obviously been around death and dying and the challenging conversations that go along with all that for quite a while. I'm curious about your experience with people's ability to speak about death and dying. What is it that you're noticing around these conversations around death? 

MK: You just brought up that you had experienced death. And so, that makes you more open to having the conversations because the problem is death is scary, and we don't wanna talk about it. And we live in a very death phobic society. What we don't know scares us. So, it's hard for a lot of people to talk about this because let’s face it, really, who wants to— I mean do I really want to contemplate my own death? Not really because I wanna live for years to come. And if I don't, I wanna make sure I’ve had those important conversations with the people that matter most to me so they know what I want. So, it's usually a life experience that leads them into talking and starting these conversations. 

I think COVID has been good for starting these conversations because it can happen to any of us. And it did happen as the U.S. saw over 600,000 Americans have died of COVID. And I don't think there's one life that hasn't been touched now, that hasn't known someone that has died of COVID or known of someone. That makes people start to think “Gosh, it could happen to me. No. It really could happen to me. And so, maybe I should be prepared.” 

AT: So, are you noticing that with COVID that there's more of an openness to have these dialogs? 

MK: There was earlier on. I read somewhere that Google searches for estate planning skyrocketed. And I’ve talked to an estate planning attorneys that have said that they've had an increase in business because of COVID and others that said not really, but I think people are now searching more. So, yes, I think that there has been an increase, but it's sort of tapering off. 

[0:15:04]

We’re all getting to be able to live with COVID. So many of us are vaccinated now. And so, a lot of the fear around that's gone and things are opening up. So, life is getting back to normal, but I just started a course. I do a 5-week course and launched my course last night. And there were more people on it than usual. So, more people are interested in learning more about this. 

AT: Amazing. It is fascinating that it's such a part of life, right, death? We're all going to die. There's no escaping that yet and yet it’s not on the conversation table. 

MK: You know, there's a quote by Ben Franklin. I realized it was Ben Franklin that said the inevitable in life is death and taxes, but I'd argue that taxes you don't actually have to pay your taxes. It might come after you, but you don't actually have to pay them, but you will die. I mean there's just no getting out of it. And we just don’t know when. So, my thing is be prepared and create that roadmap so you could have at least peace for your family. Peace of mind maybe, not peace. Peace of mind. ‘Cause we’re always gonna grieve loss. But to let people just have a roadmap to follow so that they can honor wishes of the person that has died or honor them in their journey to death, that’s really huge and it gives people truly a peace of mind knowing that that’s there and that they’re able to honor their family’s wishes.

AT: Yeah. Absolutely. This has reminded me that I forgot to read the poem that usually starts our circle. If it’s okay with you, I would love to read this poem now and we’ll see how it infiltrate through the rest of the dialog. And if you want to introduce your talking piece, feel free to do that as well. 

So, this poem is called Death and it’s by Joe Brainard. Death is a funny thing. Most people are afraid of it and yet they don’t even know what it is. Perhaps we can clear this up. What is death? Death is it. That’s it. Finished. Finnito. Over and out. No more. Death is many different things to many different people. I think it is safe to say however that most people don't like it. Why? Because they’re afraid of it. Why are they afraid of it? Because they don't understand it. I think that the best way to understand death is to think about it a lot, try to come to terms with it, try to really understand it. Give it a chance. 

Sometimes it helps if we can try to visualize things. Try to visualize for example someone sneaking up behind your back and hitting you over the head with a giant hammer. Some people prefer to think of death as a more spiritual thing, when the soul somehow separates itself from the mess and goes on living forever somewhere else. Heaven and hell being the most traditional choices. Death has a very black reputation. But actually, to die is a perfectly normal thing to do. It's so wholesome. Being a very important part of nature's big picture. Trees die, don’t they? And flowers. I think it's always nice to know that you're not alone even in death. 

Let's think about ants for a minute. Millions of ants die every day and do we care? No. And I'm sure that ants feel the same way about us. But suppose— just suppose that we didn't have to die. That wouldn’t be so great either. If a 90-year-old man can hardly stand up. Can you imagine what it would be like to be a 500-year-old man? Another comforting thought about death is that 80 years or so after you die, nobody who knew you will still be alive to miss you. And after you're dead, you won't even know it. 

MK: I love that. I want a copy of it. You know, it adds humor. Just what I said. You gotta keep humor around this. But when you were talking about that, it reminded me— I told you I launched my course that I do. And there's this clip. I don't know if you saw A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood. It's a movie about Mr. Rogers. And I never— Even though I'm old enough, I never grew up watching Mr. Rogers. So, I really didn't know about other than who he was, but there's a part at the end where this gentleman’s dying and the family scattered around and Mr. Rogers comes to visit, but there's a lot of awkwardness because the family doesn't know what to say. 

And there’s a moment that Mr. Rogers says, “You know, people are fearful of talking about death, but to die is to be human. Anything human is mentionable. And anything mentionable is manageable.” And I thought that is the most— 

[0:20:00]

I just love that quote. I don't know if Mr. Rogers really said it or it was just a movie moment. But you know, it's so true that it's manageable and we forget that. It's also true that really two generations out we don't remember. Like most people don't remember their great grandparents’ names. Yeah. I know that great grandpa Muller— but I don’t know who’s like— I know his first name. But really, when I think about it, I don't know that. That's why legacy work is so important for families to carry on those family traditions, and remember, and have written history of family. So, yeah, he’s right. What a great poem.

AT: Yeah. I was reminded of it because so much of what you had shared was in that poem. And so, I'm glad it came forward and thanks for that. So, you’re touching on a little bit of the types of things we should be talking about as we approach death or well before that. But before we go there, I’m a big fan of presenting a vision to look toward because I think that having that vision in mind helps us when things get tough to keep going forward, to step into the difficult conversation even though we don't want to. And so, I'm curious. What is possible? When we can sit down and have candid conversations around death and dying, what is possible? And please feel free to share some examples of experiences. 

MK: As a nurse at the bedside, I saw that all the time. The families that had had the conversations and the families that had not and the devastation for the families that had not. One of the things about working oncology and having a cancer diagnosis is that there's time for those conversations. Not everyone has them, but there is time. Working in the ICU, which I did for many years, those decisions were made on emotion especially when there's never been a conversation about what if. One story that just drove me to be an advocate for people getting their legal documents in place, the power of attorney documents completed, was I was working in the Chicago area and a 62-year-old woman had been out playing tennis that morning, took her 85-year-old mother to a doctor's appointment and then to lunch. And she driving her mother home had a heart attack. Slumped over the wheel, crashed the car into the bushes on the side of the road. 

And this was in the `90s when not everyone had a cellphone in their hands, but her mom pulled her out of the car and started CPR she saw on TV. Well, this woman had ended up in the ICU. I was her nurse that admitted her. On a ventilator, heavily sedated. She had 4 children, no husband. You know, everyone rushed to the bedside. But after a few days, she wasn’t waking up. She wasn’t waking up from having the sedation, decreasing the sedation and then removing sedation, and she didn’t wake up. So, they had to do a brain scan and she had no brain activity. They had to tell this family that she was brain dead. And that’s when the family started fighting and that's when the kids— Because she had no legal person to speak on her behalf, those kids had no idea what to do. 

And two of them wanted to take her off life support. Two of them wanted to keep her on because they felt like she was still alive and that they were gonna kill her if they took her off life support. She ended up living for 6-1/2 weeks on a ventilator, brain dead, with this family fighting. We had to limit the family visits, which at that time we didn’t really like to do because it's important to have the family support or the support of those people that matter most to you at your bedside when you're in this critical situation. And the mother would sit in the corner of the room and she kept saying I destroyed this family. And I reassured her. Other nurses. We all tried to reassure her that she didn't. She did what anyone would do, but they didn’t have any idea what to do and it was just the most painful, sad thing. 

And I believe that those siblings are still fractured to this day. It was so deep and so bitter. So, I became an advocate telling everyone you have to have one person that can legally speak for you because they could have then taken her off life support and let her die a natural death. Then fast forward, a family that I worked with right before COVID, this woman that had taken one of my courses said, “There’s six of us and we’re all strong willed and opinionated. And I don't see us coming together if something happens to our parents, but I'm the healthcare agent. I’m the one that has to make the decisions.” So, we got together with the siblings and their father actually came into the room. He’s like “Wait. If anything like that ever happens to me, I want this, this, and this.” So, we had this great candid conversation. 

[0:25:02]

He wasn't supposed to be there, but he was. They were more talking about their mom who had early signs of dementia. Well, this past February, a year later, their dad ended up falling, not able to stand, getting really confused. And he’s 79. Well, they ended up having to take him to the hospital. They found fluid on— All this stuff going on. And they wanted to admit him to the ICU, start doing tests and procedures. And my friend, this woman that was in my class, she’s like “Wait.” And she called all her siblings and said this is what's going on. And they all were able to say, “Wait, we heard dad say… He would not want this. That this is absolutely what he would want.” 

So, they decided they would— I'll bring him home and put him on hospice. And he’s still live on hospice, but he wasn’t alone in an ICU. He’s been loved on by his family. He’s had family in and out. And they have the means to hire caregivers. Grandkids, everyone's there loving on him and having this peaceful, tranquil experience instead of him being alone in the ICU with— So often once one thing goes wrong and you start intervening— As my dear friend's mom used to say, “Ah, I don't wanna circle the drain.” But you know, things start happening. 

And so, for me, I just look and I think that’s how it can be. The one lady in Chicago that they had never talked about and just good fortune that this man had walked into this family meeting was able to express his wishes. It just makes all the difference.

AT: Oh, thank you for sharing the contrast of experiences. I can relate on a personal level. A number of years ago, my family sat down. My mom is showing some signs of early onset dementia. And we sat down collectively as a family to have a conversation. And really, it was an opportunity for her to express her needs for death and dying, but also what she wants between now and then and how she would like us to show up, and treat her, and respect her. And ooh, I might get emotional here. My mom really led the charge there. She was the executive director of a nursing home for much of her life. 

And so, she had been through so many of these conversations. Watched the pros and cons of having them in not having them. And so, she really just stepped into her power. It was such an empowering opportunity for her. And for me, anyways, it felt so relaxing and calm to know that I know exactly what she wants. That there's no question when we get there. And so, it was empowering for her, which I appreciate that aspect because I think a lot of times also when people get sick or their mental facilities are starting to become in question, we automatically think, well, they don't have a voice anymore and we stop listening. But to be able to provide an opportunity for them to speak and share from their heart I think is just so beautiful. 

MK: Yes. It is. And then it gives you that roadmap to follow— when this happens, mom said this is what she wanted and this is what she did not want— so that everyone is on the same page. You don't have to agree with what her choices are, but you're able to honor them. And that to me is so important. Before I started this business, my kids were all still in college because they’re all super close in age, but they were all going to be home at the holidays. And I said, “Okay. You know what? Your dad and I are 55 now and anything can happen. So, I wanna have a family meeting. I want a 4-hour block of your time.” And I wanted them to know where to find the important documents, where our estate planning documents were, how to access our accounts.

But mostly, I wanted them to know what I would want if anything happened to me. I didn't want them to ever have to guess and then go through— That is a very stressful, emotional time guessing what someone wants when you've never had that conversation. And I said, “I want you to hear straight from me and we're gonna do this every few years especially as we get older or if we have a diagnosis that can lead to a terminal condition, health changes. I'm gonna call you back, and we're gonna talk.” My boys are very close friends and I don't want it fractured like that family was. That was my impetus for this meeting because I said, “I don't want you to ever be pitted against each other because you think that one person made a decision that you didn't agree with because you’ll hear straight from me what I want. And it will be written down in my advance directives.”  

[0:30:14]

So, it was a really powerful, but my kids— You know, they heard from my husband and me what we wanted and then they started talking about, well, if something happens to us, this is what we would want. I found out that none of them want country music played if they’re in a coma even though my one son— I like it well enough, but I don't want to hear it 24/7, you know. And so, little things like that. But I also found that one of my sons wants his brain donated to this traumatic brain injury study at Boston University if anything were to happen to him. It would never have even crossed my mind, but he's had concussions playing sports and that's very important to him that they can learn something from that. 

So, it was really just a really powerful, wonderful conversation. I said, “Okay. We’re gonna have this again sometime soon, you know, like every 5 years.” I said it might get to every year or more as we age. I hope we age long enough that it can be every year.

AT: Absolutely. Oh, I love that story. Yeah. I can already feel the joy and that this can be a fun exercise. I know that when I was diagnosed with cancer, I had a will, but I went and re-revised the will. And it was actually a neat exercise to think about “Yeah, what do I want upon my death? Like where do I want my money to go? How do I want people to celebrate my life?” And I've got everything in there from like the DJ that needs to be there, the type of music, all of that.

MK: Love that. We go through all of that. It’s about legacy, and bucket list, and rituals, and life celebrations. But I have to tell this story that this woman that I actually was on her podcast and she said her parents— they have what they call their death binder weekend because one of the things I tell people “When you get this all in order, when you’ve written out what you would want if you were dying, what you would want after you die, then review it annually.” 

I always said, “Do it as a birthday gift to yourself in your birthday month. Is everyone in the right place or do you need to update any passwords, or account numbers, or anything in the financial part of it?” But she said her parents do this depth finder weekend they have everything copies. Everything and by death binder weekend. They have copies of everything in a binder. Their estate planning, their wills, their financial insurances, everything down to how to celebrate their life after, what songs they want played. If it’s religious, what readings they want. And they go away.

Every year, they take one weekend and they go someplace they wanna visit. And the first night of the weekend, they bring a bottle of wine and they do takeout. They sit in a hotel room and they go through the entire death binder. And they just make sure everything's in order and then they go on and celebrate their life by living to the fullest over the rest of the weekend, and they have a great time. And I thought that is so beautiful. That is so beautiful. I told my husband that's what we're doing next time we review everything. We’re going away for the weekend and doing our death binder weekend. 

AT: I love it. I love it.

MK: This is great.

AT: Yeah. Absolutely.

MK: I told him I’m gonna steal that. 

AT: Yeah.

[Crosstalk]

MK: …just steal it and do it yourself.

AT:Yes. Yes. Oh.

MK: Because it’s the way that we can fully live life when we know this is all taken care of. People don’t realize that it’s very freeing and it allows us to just then go and enjoy the moments of life.

AT: Yes. I can 100% attest to that. You've touched on a little bit of all the things we need to be thinking about. And I know we're gonna give people your website. On there is information about the courses that you take, which I think are great. And what can you offer the listener right now in terms of what are the things that we need to start to consider in terms of planning for our death or having these types of conversations with people? 

MK: The #1 thing people need to take care of ASAP is in the States it’s called power of attorney. I think it is also in Canada. Getting someone to take on that role for you to become your healthcare advocate. It’s kind of like a healthcare surrogate, healthcare proxy. The power of attorney documents signed so that they’re legally binding and name someone, but you should always ask them first. Don’t just name someone without asking them and make sure it’s someone that will honor your wishes and that is strong enough emotionally to carry through your wishes and someone that you trust enough if something happens that you’ve never discussed, that you’ve never anticipated, that you trust them to make the right decision based on what they know about you. 

[0:35:00]

I think that's the one most important thing if you're gonna do nothing else. Just get that done because I've seen it over and over again like the story I told. In fact, I’m gonna post an article later about the LGBTQ community. They don't always have the rights that we do even today. And years ago, I was taking care of a woman that was dying. Her partner of 25 years was banned from her room by her family and that her partner— This is where I’ll get teary. Her partner never got to see her again. She never got to see her alive again. 

I mean that was so wrong. That's where having that legal document and she could have chosen her partner to be the one to make the legal decisions and she would have had the rights to be there with her at the end and make the medical decisions. And I don't think that we realize that that can still— I kept hoping that it didn't happen like that. But after reading this article that it can and that's the importance of having this documentation. And then you go on and do everything else, but that's #1, you know, getting that done.

AT: Yeah. Yeah.

MK: Yeah.

AT: Thank you for that. I like all the aspects that you brought out in terms of the qualities of that person too. And sometimes, I think— For me, I felt that if I didn't pick a family member to do that, that they might be offended if I didn't make someone my power of attorney, but I made the decision to make my lawyer the power of attorney (A) because I didn't wanna put the burden on my family as they were grieving and because I knew that they would be entirely objective and honor my wishes. So, there are so many options I think to what that looks like. 

MK: There are so many options. I don't think people realize that you can hire an attorney or there's people that are usually healthcare advocates that you can hire to be your healthcare proxy and make those decisions for you. It is very emotional. So, have a family member just be your power of attorney spokesperson just because they're there, that might be placing a heavy, stressful, emotional burden on them. So, I love that you brought that out.

AT: How can people learn more about advanced care planning and about your work as well? 

MK: They can go to my website, radiantmourning.com. And every month, I put on a free webinar on advanced care planning, but I'd love to have a chat with anyone that would like to just learn more about it. They can go. There's a place to sign up for a free chat on my website and then I also held a conversation starter guide. 7 prompts to get the conversation started. And that's what started the talk now. So, sometimes you just don't know how to do it. So, I just wrote out different scenarios and give the ideas. And it’s free. And I’d love for people to go there and take that and see if anything fits.

AT: That sounds very useful. Thank you for putting that out there. To finish off our circle conversation, this is a question that I've just recently started asking. But you know, this podcast is all about being the change and that means different things to different people. What does that mean to you being the change? And you can speak about it, whatever, in this particular context or just in life in general. 

MK: There's so many different things, but having the courage to step into uncomfortable situations. It's uncomfortable to talk about death. But by having the courage, you could change the dynamics for someone if you can start these conversations. Having the courage to start conversations about grief. As you know, my friend, she's a grief coach. I was grieving about all the racial injustice. And she and I started a call. We called it Grief and Black Lives Matter. Now, we’ve just renamed it to Grief in the 21st Century because there’s so much grief out there around so many issues in life right now and injustices that are happening. We didn't know where we’d go, but it was the courage to start that conversation that’s really made an impact. Expand your comfort zone. Have the courageous conversations and it will change lives. 

AT: Yes. I love that and I agree 100%. Yeah. Maureen, thank you so much for joining us in circle. The work that you're doing is so important. And I actually think it's essential for helping us to show up more fully in our lives and create a more loving, connecting, and fulfilling life. 

[0:40:02]

I have the sense that this conversation has impacted at least one person and I imagine many, many more. And for that, I am so, so grateful for all the wisdom that you've shared and your stories, so thank you. 

MK: Oh, thank you, Ame-Lia, for having me. I've really enjoyed it. 

AT: I'm now passing the talking piece to you. If you feel called to put your voice in the circle, please head to humconsulting.ca/podcast and share your story there. I cannot wait to hear what has come up for you as you have listened to what has been shared here today. I wish you love and joy beyond your wildest imagination. Thank you so much for being here in the Circle of Change. 

I also want to express my gratitude to the following peeps: Circle of Change is recorded on Lekwungen territories and I am so grateful to live on this land. Our opening and closing music was created by the talented E-Rol Beats. You can find his creations at erolbeats.com. And special thanks to my coach, Mary Chan, of Organized Sound Productions for bringing this podcast to life. Until next time, Ciao! 

AT: I'm now passing the talking piece to you. If you feel called to put your voice in this circle, please head to www.humconsulting.ca/podcast and share your story there. I cannot wait to hear what has come up for you as you have listened to what has been shared here today. 

I wish you love and joy beyond your wildest imagination. Thank you so much for being here in the Circle of Change. 

I also want to express my gratitude to the following peeps: Circle of Change is recorded on the Lekwungen territory and I am so grateful to live on this land. Our opening and closing music was created by the talented E.Rol Beats. You can find his creations at erolbeats.com. And special thanks to my coach, Mary Chan of Organized Sound Productions for bringing this podcast to life. 

Until next time, Ciao.